用timber做roof trusses的好处和坏处。有谁可以给点idea.谢谢

swlbilly

请各位大哥大姐给点一见。。。小弟无胜感激。。。

patrickchan86

原帖由 swlbilly 于 15-1-2007 11:05 PM 发表
请各位大哥大姐给点一见。。。小弟无胜感激。。。

timber roof trusses 遇到火灾的时候没酱快塌下来。如果是铁的话，一热到一个程度就比timber塌下来还要快。timber roof trusses运输会比steel来的贵，因为steel可以在工地按装，数量也可以很多。而timber就要在厂打好才载去工地，timber很怕白蚁，但是如果药水足的话40-50年应该会没问题，steel在上瓦的时候要非常小心，一旦弄歪了就会完蛋。
如果你要这一方面的专家，我可以介绍给你算是全马最大做timber roof trusses的公司！

swlbilly

谢谢。。那请问是哪一家呢？

patrickchan86

原帖由 swlbilly 于 16-1-2007 10:59 PM 发表
谢谢。。那请问是哪一家呢？

Sunrise Brothers Trading Company Sdn Bhd (专业于timber, steel也是有做）
Dayatera Trading Company Sdn Bhd (steel的工它做比较多）
Country Point Sdn Bhd (timber)
Dayatera 的股东好像拆伙了
Dayatera 的公司在shah alam
Sunrise Brother 和 Country Point 都在芙蓉！
这三家公司算是在roof truss市场上比较活跃的公司！

NBD8669

timber truss如果和steel truss比的话，便宜点，不过就span就没那么长，容易驻白蚁咯。

patrickchan86

原帖由 NBD8669 于 17-1-2007 03:30 PM 发表
timber truss如果和steel truss比的话，便宜点，不过就span就没那么长，容易驻白蚁咯。

酱你就错了！timber不一定便宜过steel。要看顾客要什么木，好的木可以贵steel几倍。
木不一定容易驻白蚁，有一些木不浸药水白蚁也不吃。那种木是很贵的。
也要看那一间公司用的药水足不足，很多公司都是把木浸药水吧了！还有一些加青粉让顾客以为药水很够。
我介绍那几家都是用炉把药水加压进木材里面，所以没什么问题的。他们又给顾客保证！

NBD8669

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 18-1-2007 12:52 AM 发表

酱你就错了！timber不一定便宜过steel。要看顾客要什么木，好的木可以贵steel几倍。
木不一定容易驻白蚁，有一些木不浸药水白蚁也不吃。那种木是很贵的。
也要看那一间公司用的药水足不足，很多公司都是把木 ...

虽然如此，如果standard的timber truss和steel truss，我想怎样都会是steel贵点的，更何况现在的铁那么的好价，reinforcement不贵都不卖咯。

patrickchan86

原帖由 NBD8669 于 18-1-2007 01:01 AM 发表


虽然如此，如果standard的timber truss和steel truss，我想怎样都会是steel贵点的，更何况现在的铁那么的好价，reinforcement不贵都不卖咯。

酱是啦！通常他们都是用mix hard wood俗称杂材。大多数的排屋都是用这种木的。
版主你也是芙蓉人?

NBD8669

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 18-1-2007 01:09 AM 发表

酱是啦！通常他们都是用mix hard wood俗称杂材。大多数的排屋都是用这种木的。
版主你也是芙蓉人?

是的，我是芙蓉人

patrickchan86

原帖由 NBD8669 于 18-1-2007 01:21 AM 发表


是的，我是芙蓉人

芙蓉哪里？？你好像对roof trusses很熟噢！！！
你是做这行的？？？

NBD8669

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 18-1-2007 03:16 PM 发表

芙蓉哪里？？你好像对roof trusses很熟噢！！！
你是做这行的？？？

我现在在pj的c&s consultant工作咯，以前在过kt perunding实习过的。知道kt perunding吗？
不是很熟，现在也还在学习当中。

swlbilly

我的assignment就是这题，明天 present了。。还占了五十分。还真的蛮担心的。。

静^天空^静

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 16-1-2007 01:10 AM 发表

timber roof trusses 遇到火灾的时候没酱快塌下来。如果是铁的话，一热到一个程度就比timber塌下来还要快。timber roof trusses运输会比steel来的贵，因为steel可以在工地按装，数量也可以很多。而timber就要 ...

我朋友说'timber'是属於combustible material,class xxx (忘记了)， 绝对不是一个防火的好材料。一旦着火，timber本身也会着火，导致失去支撑的平衡&力度。所以，要等到steel热到某个程度时，那timber早已经变灰炭了。。。而且，steel有两种生产法，一种是cold formed,一种是hot formed,两种都有不同的支撑力度&硬度，但，都绝对比timber来得防火。。。

Pls refer to the British Building Standard & Regulation.

GP664

是hot rolled

静^天空^静

原帖由 GP664 于 20-1-2007 12:11 PM 发表
是hot rolled

hot rolled & cold rolled 是属於铁的加工做法，而得到你所要的一定弧度。。。
我所指的hot formed & cold formed是铁的生产法。。。

patrickchan86

原帖由 静^天空^静 于 20-1-2007 02:44 AM 发表


我朋友说'timber'是属於combustible material,class xxx (忘记了)， 绝对不是一个防火的好材料。一旦着火，timber本身也会着火，导致失去支撑的平衡&力度。所以，要等到steel热到某个程度时，那timber早 ...

timber要着火是很蓉易，但是要记得着火之前已经有一定的温度了！steel roof trusess 不可以承受那个温度，所以倒的话一定快倒过timber.Timber也有分grade，有些timber火灾后也不会倒。记住timber和steel相比火灾不必烧到roof trusess只要热到一个程度，steel都会倒下。这是马来西亚市场所得到的资料！你所说的，可能是在另一用途，另一个市场。决对不是在马来西亚 roof trusess领域里面。因为马来西亚steel truss的standard的厚度多数是0.8mm或1.0mm，没有理由你用实心的铁去做roof truss的。你的theory是对的！但马来西亚roof trusses领域里面，steel truss遇到火灾一定快倒过timber roof truss.

静^天空^静

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 21-1-2007 11:12 PM 发表
timber要着火是很蓉易，但是要记得着火之前已经有一定的温度了！steel roof trusess 不可以承受那个温度，所以倒的话一定快倒过timber.Timber也有分grade，有些timber火灾后也不会倒。记住timber和steel相比火灾不必烧到roof trusess只要热到一个程度，steel都会倒下。这是马来西亚市场所得到的资料！你所说的，可能是在另一用途，另一个市场。决对不是在马来西亚 roof trusess领域里面。因为马来西亚steel truss的standard的厚度多数是0.8mm或1.0mm，没有理由你用实心的铁去做roof truss的。你的theory是对的！但马来西亚roof trusses领域里面，steel truss遇到火灾一定快倒过timber roof truss.

the steel trusses thickness you mentioned were totally not up to the international standard. I believe there are still plenty of malaysia sub-contractors and manufacturers trying to reduce their cost on that. Even the thickness of steel door frames are greater than 1mm!!

However, all of the roof structures are to be carefully designed and accompanied with the approved engineers' calculations. Usually, the engineers would have to decide which thinkness of the steel trusses are suitable but not just base on the common thinkness of Malaysia. And i do know, the Malaysia construction control is in many problems, that's why the steel trusses made roof would fall before the timber made as you said.

I believe the 0.8mm and 1.0mm roof trusses are also not complied with the roofing fire-resistant standard and it will collapse within one hour of fire and also how much the wind-load can them bear?

We should do what is the right but not the usual. If you are right, then i am here to advise Malaysian to buy timber roof trusses house rather than steel roof trusses, for safe!

Somemore, when you are telling someone that "timber roof trusses 遇到火灾的时候没酱快塌下来。如果是铁的话，一热到一个程度就比timber塌下来还要快",you should also explain that this is because of the steel's thickness which is only 0.8mm or 1.0mm.

以上是我朋友写的。。。

patrickchan86

原帖由 静^天空^静 于 22-1-2007 09:35 AM 发表


the steel trusses thickness you mentioned were totally not up to the international standard. I believe there are still plenty of malaysia sub-contractors and manufacturers trying to reduce t ...

Unfortunately Malaysia steel trusses market standard thickness really is 1.0mm and 0.8mm. If you use the thickness more than 1.0mm the cost will be increase then the market will no one want to use the steel trusses.The program to design the timber trusses structur is from Australia and the wind-load is 33 meter per sec.All design will approve by our enginner. The steel door frame minimum thickness is 1.5mm because it support by concrete. When fire also nothing happen to door frame.
这是我所得到的资料。有什么疑问可click   http://www.dayatera.com/

NBD8669

楼上的两位网友，你们好。看到你们的发表，让我受益不浅，虽然我都不是专长在truss的，不过我永远都会相信逻辑的，凡是都有证明，我都会相信的，我深信很多人都会和我有一样想法的，对吧。如果你们是要坚持你们的论点是对的，不妨加入资料或是附图等等的证明，我会好不吝啬地评分的。如有疑问，可以短讯我。谢谢！

NBD8669 上

静^天空^静

原帖由 patrickchan86 于 22-1-2007 10:57 AM 发表
Unfortunately Malaysia steel trusses market standard thickness really is 1.0mm and 0.8mm. If you use the thickness more than 1.0mm the cost will be increase then the market will no one want to  ...

I have never said the Malaysia steel trusses market standard thickness aren't 0.8mm & 1.0mm, but i did mention that 0.8mm & 1.0mm is because of those sub-contractors & manufacturers are trying to reduce the cost, as you said so!

Anyway, as a designer we can’t design the things because of the demand of customer and the customers themselves are in the target of reducing their budgets. I have been to the website you provided and it’s totally lacking of technical details, regulation or standard to comply and the description of guarantee. Usually a standard construction product manufacturer will provide a very good website and its products information which I couldn’t find it in your provided website.

However, the steel door frames with the thickness of 1.5mm or more are not because of they’re mounted on the wall openings by the concrete. In Malaysia or Singapore , all of the metal doors would be usually installed by surface mounted (sub-frame system) or concrete grouting method to the structural opening. Increasing the frames’ thickness is whether to achieve a greater opening, heavier door leaf or longer fire-resistance but not as what you said.

So more as you said even with the concrete support the steel door frames have to be 1.5mm then what have been supporting the ‘Malaysia’s 0.8mm and 1.0mm roof trusses’? The product could be designed by the Australian but I don’t think the Malaysians are using it at the right place and in the right way.


And can you ask that website provider how long is the designed fire-rated for their roof trusses, & do they have fire certificate from Malaysia or Australia ?

http://www.kingspan.com/

or you may refer to http://www.lenammegasheet.com.my/product4.htm. They’re ISO 9002 guarantee and they use thicker purlin. So what size of the purlin Malaysia used to use? With the 0.8 and 1.0mm trusses, then the purlins have to under 0.5mm or less??