未来5年, 你认为国防部应该再定购什么重要军备

阿修罗3

现在的战争都是多位一体的,
就想现在大部分的陆军不管是在进攻或者防卫,
都是一各种兵种联合作战的,
没有只有一种兵种能够独当一面的!

pfg1group

本期的air forces monthly，
有专门出版的米格-29小开本。

不知道我们当初的讨论对不对。
根据他们的资料，
大马当初所购买的，
是mig -29sd版本，
NO19ME雷达，
with additional capability of RVV-AE.
所以，已经确定r-77的版本。

另外，原来所购买的战机都是9-12b,
在1995年以后，才正式在关丹upgraded to mig-29sd.
另外还有空中加油版本，
不过，不懂空中加油系统可以不可以和大马空军现有的美国系统配合。



[ 本帖最后由 pfg1group 于 3-1-2007 03:06 PM 编辑 ]

steven268h

原帖由 pfg1group 于 3-1-2007 03:00 PM 发表
本期的combat aircraft，
有专门出版的米格-29小开本。

不知道我们当初的讨论对不对。
根据他们的资料，
大马当初所购买的，
是mig -29sd版本，
NO19ME雷达，
with additional capability of RVV-AE. ...

1995年后，大马的Mig29正式升级去Mig29SM版本，主要改装有，座舱电战（头套改为法国的），雷达，扩大油箱跟添加加油系统。可以用C130加油机进行加油。而在不久后，正是地接受R77导弹。这次我也不知道第几次重复这句话了。

pfg1group

原帖由 steven268h 于 3-1-2007 03:06 PM 发表


1995年后，大马的Mig29正式升级去Mig29SM版本，主要改装有，座舱电战（头套改为法国的），雷达，扩大油箱跟添加加油系统。可以用C130加油机进行加油。而在不久后，正是地接受R77导弹。这次我也不知道第几次 ...

还有，我记得曾经和cod兄讨论过有关大马可能版本的r-77.

我觉得这次我们又可以争执了

根据这个版本，
mig29sd 是从mig-29 (9-12b) 发展出来。
mig29sm 是从mig-29s (9-13s) 发展出来。

sd 是 tactical fighter.
sm 是 multirole fighter.

sm 是对地加强版， 可以用苏联版的电视引导pgm.
而且，最重要的一句话，
this version of mig-29sm failed to find any customers

我要相信谁好？
steven, 快快给我你的资料来源。

steven268h

原帖由 pfg1group 于 3-1-2007 03:13 PM 发表


还有，我记得曾经和cod兄讨论过有关大马可能版本的r-77.

我觉得这次我们又可以争执了

根据这个版本，
mig29sd 是从mig-29 (9-12b) 发展出来。
mig29sm 是从mig-29s (9-13s) 发展出来。

s ...

你说的是SMT版本呢？还是SM版本？SM版本的特征有扩大油箱，让战机的作战半径扩大，雷达更改为新的，具备伸缩性加油管。我的意思是，我国的Mig29是升级这些东西。并非是整体上都进行升级。

pfg1group

原帖由 steven268h 于 3-1-2007 03:19 PM 发表


你说的是SMT版本呢？还是SM版本？SM版本的特征有扩大油箱，让战机的作战半径扩大，雷达更改为新的，具备伸缩性加油管。我的意思是，我国的Mig29是升级这些东西。并非是整体上都进行升级。

不同

mig-29 (9-13) -->
mig-29s (9-13s) -->
mig-29sm (9-13sm) -->
mig-29smt (9-17)

大马mig-29sd的雷达版本 NO19ME, 可以发射r-77.
苏联mig-29smt的雷达版本NO19MP, 具备地图功能。
但是，同样的，

'the first RusAF MIG-29 fighter conversion to MIG-29SMT (9-17) standard was completed in 1999, but afterwards the programme was suspended. '

如果是这样的话，看雷达就知道版本是什么了。

要不然的话， 等下我回office, scan 这面给你看。

pfg1group

马来西亚 - 意大利MB339 （签约）
新加坡 - 瑞士PC-21（签约）
印尼 -捷克L159 （呼声最高）

大家各有各的盘算。

748yonyon

跟美国买个航母。剩下的钱来训练航母上的军兵和买m4和m16。

Cod_XIII

原帖由 pfg1group 于 3-1-2007 03:13 PM 发表


还有，我记得曾经和cod兄讨论过有关大马可能版本的r-77.

我觉得这次我们又可以争执了

根据这个版本，
mig29sd 是从mig-29 (9-12b) 发展出来。
mig29sm 是从mig-29s (9-13s) 发展出来。

至于P-77么，可以翻翻我们之前的老帖。

http://chinese2.cari.com.my/myfo ... 7107&highlight=

MiG-29SD Fulcrum-A (type 9.12?)
Export upgrade of the basic MiG-29 (9.12), with most of the SE improvements, plus provisions for the “Dozaprahvka” - inflight refuelling. The prototype (air force serial number 36034 “357”) began refuelling trials in November 1995. Designated MiG-29N for Malaysia.

MiG-29N
Malaysian local designation of its new-build version of the MiG-29SD. 16 single-seat MiG-29Ns (from production batches 52 and 53) and two two-seat MiG-29NUBs delivered in 1995 for Nos. 17 and 19 Squadrons RMAF. Normal T-O weight 15,000 kg (33,068 lb). Maximum T-O weight 20,000 kg (44,090 lb), maximum weapon load 2,000 kg (4,409 lb). N019ZM radar. All being upgraded at 800 hours servicing to "full MiG-29N standard", with a 3,000 kg (6,614 lb) weapon load. Raytheon IFF. Cockpit placards in English, voice warning system, instruments and displays calibrated in feet, knots, feet/minute and nautical miles, in-flight refuelling system using retractable extending probe on the port side of the front fuselage, AN/ARN-139 Tacan, GPS and ILS. First upgraded aircraft (M43-12) flew on 13 April 1998. Armament includes R-27R1 and R-73E1 AAMs, GSh-301 gun. The upgrade adds RVV-AE (R-77 AA-12 “Adder”) capability, allied to the Phazotron N019ME radar with twin target BVR potential. Performance same as the MiG-29S except for the service ceiling of 18,000 m (59,050 ft). The RD-33 engines have been modified to extend their service life.

http://www.scramble.nl/wiki/inde ... yan_Gurevich_MiG-29

[ 本帖最后由 Cod_XIII 于 3-1-2007 09:52 PM 编辑 ]

pfg1group

原帖由 Cod_XIII 于 3-1-2007 05:59 PM 发表


至于P-77么，可以翻翻我们之前的老帖。

http://chinese2.cari.com.my/myfo ... 7107&highlight=

MiG-29SD Fulcrum-A (type 9.12?)
Export upgrade of the basic MiG-29 (9. ...

你的资料和他们的一样。
不懂是不是都一样抄出来的。

对了，初期的9-12有 A, B 版本。
A 版本是对华沙公约组织的出口。
B 版本是对非共产党国家的出口。

所以大马的这个最初版本应该是9-12b

qwerty223

原帖由 pfg1group 于 4-1-2007 02:12 AM 发表

你的资料和他们的一样。
不懂是不是都一样抄出来的。

对了，初期的9-12有 A, B 版本。
A 版本是对华沙公约组织的出口。
B 版本是对非共产党国家的出口。

所以大马的这个最初版本应该是9-12b

苏联瓦解过后，对没有政治冲突的国家出口已经没有限制了
应该不是A也不是B

TidalForce

原帖由 pfg1group 于 4-1-2007 02:12 AM 发表

你的资料和他们的一样。
不懂是不是都一样抄出来的。

对了，初期的9-12有 A, B 版本。
A 版本是对华沙公约组织的出口。
B 版本是对非共产党国家的出口。

所以大马的这个最初版本应该是9-12b

是从俄国CFE废弃场取得的二手MIG－29B。

JANE＇S DEFENCE WEEKLY。

qwerty223

原帖由 TidalForce 于 4-1-2007 07:06 PM 发表


是从俄国CFE废弃场取得的二手MIG－29B。

JANE＇S DEFENCE WEEKLY。

是不是LMZ库存的苏联旧货，众说纷纭。
一些人说当年俄罗斯从新开动生产线，高效率吓了北约一跳（你多数不信）

另外，Mig-29没有像cod兄说得那么凄惨。
至少，对于新改进买不出这点，是不对的
M1/M2/SMT/OVT频频在各项竞标中露面
其中阿尔及利亚更买了28 SMT + 6  UBT
同时卖出的还有 28 Su-30MKA
也门，苏丹，也买了一些

参考url
阿尔及利亚：http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/2-2006/item3/item1/
PS.阿尔及利亚还真是有钱到变态（看最底下的Table）

也门/苏丹
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/1-2005/ff/largest_identified/

[ 本帖最后由 qwerty223 于 4-1-2007 10:28 PM 编辑 ]

qwerty223

苏凯五月运抵我国

嘿嘿~先占个位~

qwerty223

Su-30MK jets to debut at Lima '07

KUALA LUMPUR: The Royal Malaysian Air Force's Sukhoi Su-30MKM will make its debut at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition (Lima '07) next year.

The first batch of the aircraft is expected to be delivered before the five-day event from Dec 4 to 8 next year.

"We plan to receive the first batch of jets to be an attraction atthe event," said Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Datuk SeriNajib Razak after launching preparations for the aerospace component ofLima ’07.

Although Najib did not specify the number of aircraft ordered, it is learnt that six had been manufactured in Russia.

The six aircraft await fitting with avionics as these components are sourced from outside Russia.

The letter "M" for "Malaysia" was added to the Russian-made Su-30MK because the aircraft was modified to RMAF specifications.

(India operates a similar version, designated Su-30MKI.)

Malaysia ordered 18 such aircraft for US$900 million (RM3.24billion) to supplement its existing fleet of Russian MiG-29N aircraft.

Under the deal, Russia agreed to a transfer of technology worth 30per cent of the jets’ purchase cost, or RM1.06 billion. The packageincludes the RM90 million budget needed to send a Malaysian into space.

Najib said Lima ’07 is set to be a bigger event especially withVisit Malaysia Year and the nation’s 50th year Independencecelebrations.

--ends--

大约是说，
MKM将在07 LIMA 展出！！！


今年的Lima肯定精彩，谁有去？

[ 本帖最后由 qwerty223 于 23-1-2007 08:36 PM 编辑 ]

qwerty223

Malaysia’s Long Wait for Super Hornets Continues
By JASBIR SINGH, KUALA LUMPUR
Posted 01/15/07 13:55

One of the most watched modernization programsin Malaysia — the proposed replacement of the Royal Malaysian Air ForceF/A-18D Hornet fighter jets with the newer F/A-18F Super Hornets —remains in limbo because of other funding priorities, including addingnew capabilities for the Navy and Army.
Malaysia has had its eight F/A-18Ds since 1997,and began discussions with Boeing about six years ago on acquiringF/A-18Fs, yet the talks have been fruitless.


The program remains stuck on the Air Force’swish list due to funding pressures caused by the armed forces’multibillion-dollar equipment renewal program implemented over the pastfew years. When asked earlier this year, the now-retired Air Forcechief, Gen. Nik Ismail Nik Mohamed, said the service was committed toacquiring the Super Hornet, but only when funding becomes available.
A current cost estimate for the potential SuperHornet buy is not available. However, the government already has spentmore than 15 billion Malaysian ringgit ($4.3 billion) this decade onmajor equipment purchases, and has allocated a total of 17 billionringgit in its current five-year development plan for defenseprocurement.


During this time, the Malaysian governmentsigned up to purchase, among other equipment, 48 PT-91M tanks fromPoland’s Bumar Group to set up a tank division, two new Scorpene andone used Agosta 90 submarines, a squadron of Su-30MkM fighter jets fromRussia and 11 Agusta A-109 light observation helicopters.
The submarine deal was worth 3.5 billionringgit, while the tanks and associated equipment cost about $275million. The A-109 helicopters were purchased for about $70 million,and the Su-30MkM deal was worth about $900 million.


The A-109 helicopters have entered into service and tank deliveries will begin this year.
Deliveries of 18 Su-30MkM multirole fighterswill begin this year, to coincide with the Langkawi InternationalMaritime and Aerospace exhibition in December. The remaining aircraftwill enter into service over the next two years. Preparations also arebeing made to receive the submarines from France in 2009.
These investments do not include money spent onmodernizing the armed forces as a whole, or long-overdue improvementsto infrastructure.


Aside from having to pay for the new equipment,the Malaysian Armed Forces also have incurred large costs associatedwith setting up the infrastructure for these new assets.
The military has never operated tanks orsubmarines, and is spending large sums to provide the training andinfrastructure needed to support the services.


Similarly, the Air Force has had to spend moneyto modernize an airbase to house the Su-30MkMs, put up the necessarysupporting infrastructure, and train personnel to operate and supportthe aircraft.
It appears that the rising costs involved inacquiring and operating these three major assets is sinking othermodernization programs, Defence Ministry and Air Force sources said.


For the Air Force, the recentmultimillion-dollar expenditure to overhaul MiG-29N fighters andpurchase eight Aermacchi MB-339CDs and 10 PC-7 MkII Turbo TrainerAircraft is stretching its budget, the source said.


The Aermacchi and PC-7 trainers have beenpurchased to meet urgent Air Force needs to train more pilots andreplace aircraft lost to crashes. Several smaller acquisition programsrelated to the Su-30MkM purchase are still pending and need fundingallocations.


There also have been media reports that the AirForce will mothball its MiG-29N fleet to free fighter pilots to operatethe Su-30MkMs. However, Defense Minister Najib Razak has denied thatthe MiG-29s will be retired and said additional pilots will be trainedto meet requirements.


According to Air Force sources, the F/A-18DHornet has served well and the service is committed to upgrading theaircraft to the newer versions.


There are plans to modernize the current fleet,pending funding availability. Until then, and the full induction of theSu-30MkM into the force, the Hornets will remain the main front-lineaircraft for the Air Force.
However, new money to acquire the Super Hornetsmay come by the end of the decade at the earliest, the ministry andservice sources said.


When funding to acquire the aircraft becomesavailable, the service will have to enter into fresh negotiations withBoeing, further delaying the acquisition of the replacement aircraft.
Faced with this scenario, the Air Force mustmove toward modernizing some aspects of the Hornets to maintain thatcapability. There also is interest in achieving interoperability withthe Su-30MkMs and basic network-centric capability.


The Air Force wants to ensure that the twoaircraft are able to talk to each other and exchange data. The plan isto install data links on board the Su-30MkM to allow it to communicatewith other aircraft.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2476235&C=airwar

我来献丑吧！
简单翻译重点：

题目：马来西亚的超级大黄蜂依然需要很长的等待

马来西亚的超级大黄蜂购买计划将被进一步的展延，原因是被其他如陆军和海军的扩充计划占去了资金。

已退休的空军首长Gen. Nik Ismail Nik Mohamed 证实空军还需要超级大黄蜂，但没有拨款一切都是空谈。

在这个十年间，我国已经花费了马币150亿，同时为现今的五年计划调配了170亿的军购消费。

在这个期间我们购买了48架 PT-91M坦克和相关设备，2 新的Scorpene 和一艘二手 Agosta 90潜艇。一个中队的Su-30MkM 和 11架 Agusta A-109 轻型侦查直升机。

购案价值，潜艇马币35亿，坦克2.75亿美元，A-109 7000万美元，Su-30MkM 大约9亿美元。

A-109已经服役，坦克在今年开始交付。18架Su-30MkM也会在今年开始交付，以配合十二月举行的LIMA' 07。交付周期延续至未来的两年。同时也做好了准备在09年迎接Scorpene们的到来。

以上的数字不包括部队的现代化计划和长周期的基层结构改进（这里指的是配合新进武器的后勤系统升级，和人员训练）。

由于马来西亚没有操作坦克和潜艇的经验，所以已经投入大量的资金进行训练和后勤升级。同样地，空军也必须升级军机场以配合Su-30MkM的到来。

国防部和空军部的消息都明显地显示这三项计划（陆军，海军和空军的升级）把其他的现代化计划打沉了。

空军方面，近期花费了数百万overhaul MiG-29N，同时购买8架Aermacchi MB-339CD 和十架PC-7 MkII，已经把预算透支了。 目前空军急需要Aermacchi 和 PC-7来训练Su-30MkM的飞行员。

国防部长同时向媒体誊清有关冷藏MiG-29N 以为Su-30MkM腾出飞行员的传闻时不实的。

根据空军消息源，F/A-18D们的表现良好，并会接受升级。升级计划在等待拨款，在未来Su-30MkM进入服务后，F/A-18依然是我国的前线歼击机。

据国防部和空军部消息指出，必须等到这个十年末才能得到购买超级大黄蜂的款项。到时候必须重新谈判，更换计划将被进一步展延。

面对这个问题，空军要求Su-30MkM装上可以跟黄蜂们交换讯息的数据链，以确保苏凯们可以跟黄蜂进行通讯和资讯交换。

[ 本帖最后由 qwerty223 于 23-1-2007 08:17 PM 编辑 ]

pfg1group

原帖由 qwerty223 于 23-1-2007 08:04 PM 发表

我来献丑吧！
简单翻译重点：

题目：马来西亚的超级大黄蜂依然需要很长的等待

马来西亚的超级大黄蜂购买计划将被进一步的展延，原因是被其他如陆军和海军的扩充计划占去了资金。

已退休的空军首长 ...

无端端弄什么苏联机和美国机。
外行看热闹，内行看了呱呱叫。

没有骗你们，最后弄数据链的，
一定也是会花费很多钱， 也会用很多时间。

steven268h

原帖由 pfg1group 于 26-1-2007 11:14 PM 发表

无端端弄什么苏联机和美国机。
外行看热闹，内行看了呱呱叫。

没有骗你们，最后弄数据链的，
一定也是会花费很多钱， 也会用很多时间。

我国的Mig29也用了西制的资料链系统，也能跟F18D需通资料。而Su30MKM得电战系统是Thales,电脑是印度（C/C++),CWS是SAAB得，只有机体和雷达是苏联得。难道你忘了？？？

pfg1group

原帖由 steven268h 于 26-1-2007 11:20 PM 发表


我国的Mig29也用了西制的资料链系统，也能跟F18D需通资料。而Su30MKM得电战系统是Thales,电脑是印度（C/C++),CWS是SAAB得，只有机体和雷达是苏联得。难道你忘了？？？

嘿嘿， 法国和美国标准不一样。
再来，不要忘记，我们没有大黄蜂的source code。
基本上，我不乐观。

steven268h

原帖由 pfg1group 于 26-1-2007 11:29 PM 发表

嘿嘿， 法国和美国标准不一样。
再来，不要忘记，我们没有大黄蜂的source code。
基本上，我不乐观。

我竟然忘了我国没有F18D的source code了。最重要一点我竟然给忘了....
算了，送去印度customize吧，全换了C/C++的就行了。（这个叫做梦！ ）,那你要怎么改就可以怎么改了。