buyout 问题！！

hongyin

amadeus82 发表于 31-3-2016 10:16 PM
你可以走，要先还钱咯

她都不给我知道赔多少钱。。
我跟他说。。 用我赔的钱再去快买一个新人。。 两个星期来处理很足够了。

梦想之追求者

简单，直接书面通知公司说你必须几时离开，至于notice你愿意赔钱，请公司经过核算后再书面通知你

no3no4

旧公司不妥协， 硬要留人，
难道你就不能快速了绝此事， 赔钱BYE BYE 走人？

hongyin

no3no4 发表于 2-4-2016 11:25 PM
旧公司不妥协， 硬要留人，
难道你就不能快速了绝此事， 赔钱BYE BYE 走人？

旧公司都不给我知道赔多少钱。问和追了几遍了都不回复。
如果我硬着去新公司上班然后旧公司真的可以用法律上来告我毁约。然后可能赔钱的就可能是我自己赔了， 而不是新公司帮我赔。

我有问新公司， 他说我自己决定解决。他们不能等我两个月就是了。

celorio

hongyin 发表于 5-4-2016 09:16 AM
旧公司都不给我知道赔多少钱。问和追了几遍了都不回复。
如果我硬着去新公司上班然后旧公司真的可以用法律上来告我毁约。然后可能赔钱的就可能是我自己赔了， 而不是新公司帮我赔。

我有问新公司， 他说我自己决定解决。他们不能等我两个月就是了。

其实真的第一次听到这样的公司. 不让人辞职?要员工为它做一辈子?这次也给你一个小小的教训,下次签合约时要看清楚才签. 感觉你旧公司很刻薄. 可能这是他们所设计的阴招.

既然你已经有了往新公司方向,等一个月后就直接到新公司上班.
至于要毁旧公司的合约,谈不成就自己找律师事务所来解决问题吧.

celorio

hongyin 发表于 1-4-2016 09:03 AM
她都不给我知道赔多少钱。。
我跟他说。。 用我赔的钱再去快买一个新人。。 两个星期来处理很足够了。

看到你的合约已经有说了, 赔two months basic salary. 就可以直接走人. 你还等什么?

wilson86

直接MIA
然后去新公司上班咯

hongyin

celorio 发表于 5-4-2016 03:04 PM
看到你的合约已经有说了, 赔two months basic salary. 就可以直接走人. 你还等什么?

Company agrees to relieve you before serving the full notice period, you will be liable to pay the Company the ‘Basic’
component of the salary for the balance notice period. However, please note that accepting any such early relieving request
would be entirely at the discretion of the Company.

hongyin

wilson86 发表于 5-4-2016 05:06 PM
直接MIA
然后去新公司上班咯

大家可以看看这个贴。。。
印度公司很贱得。。。

https://www.quora.com/I-am-seeki ... o-in-this-situation

wilson86

hongyin 发表于 6-4-2016 10:11 AM
大家可以看看这个贴。。。
印度公司很贱得。。。

https://www.quora.com/I-am-seeking-an-early-release-from-the-company-which-has-a-3-months-notice-period-I-want-to-get-relieved-in-a-month-and-ready-to-buy-out-the-remaining-notice-period-HR-is-not-agreeing-with-it-What-can-I-do-in-this-situation

里面也有提到court case，最后还是employee可以走的
但是这个是india的case
可能你可以问下身边比较pro的HR，看有没有相关的case在大马可以apply
还是问问一些律师朋友寻找他们的legal advice
或是可以问问大马人力资源部或者相关部门
我们是好去好来，对方来硬的就要硬对硬了
要不然吃亏的永远是员工（很多老板看死员工不敢的）
其实不遵守contract应该只是赔偿balance notice period罢了，里面也没说需要额外赔偿什么
我法律知识不是很多，但是没记错contract是不可以favour任何一边的，要不然的话就自动作废，even signed了 （不懂是不是）
所以你的应该是没什么问题啦，除非你不愿赔偿罢了，那吃亏的肯定是你
**题外话，上司可能怀恨在心找人寻仇 (看太多戏了)**


http://www.mylabourlaw.net/forum ... buy-out-payment.php

Ongss

hongyin 发表于 6-4-2016 10:10 AM
Company agrees to relieve you before serving the full notice period, you will be liable to pay the Company the ‘Basic’
component of the salary for the balance notice period. However, please note that accepting any such early relieving request
would be entirely at the discretion of the Company.

你一放这些 Terms and Conditions，我就觉得你的旧雇主是有备而来。看来你得小心了，将这段信息交给你的新雇主，告诉他们你所面对的困境。



对我来说，这种情况不是罕见。一般上，一些公司因为Service Levels或者Turnkey Project的缘故，不能轻易放人。如果，员工直接给Buyout，公司没有人手，造成Service Levels Drop 或者 Project Delay，公司会面对顾客的罚款。在这种情况下，最保险的做法就是学你的旧雇主，在 Employment Letter 放了这些 Caveat。你必须在你的  Employment Letter 看看是否还有其他条款，我猜可能还有一些细节标明你的责任。


我很老实讲，我本身也是利用这些 Caveat 来保护公司的利益。如果你直接给钱走人，你可能面对法律诉讼及赔款。将这些Terms and Conditions 及 Employment Letter 交个新雇主过目，如果他们坚持开工日期，要求他们 Black and White 表示将会 Indeminify 你所面对的风险。

hongyin

Ongss 发表于 6-4-2016 11:13 AM
你一放这些 Terms and Conditions，我就觉得你的旧雇主是有备而来。看来你得小心了，将这段信息交给你的新雇主，告诉他们你所面对的困境。



对我来说，这种情况不是罕见。一般上，一些公司因为Service Levels或者Turnkey Project的缘故，不能轻易放人。如果，员工直接给Buyout，公司没有人手，造成Service Levels Drop 或者 Project Delay，公司会面对顾客的罚款。在这种情况下，最保险的做法就是学你的旧雇主，在 Employment Letter 放了这些 Caveat。你必须在你的  Employment Letter 看看是否还有其他条款，我猜可能还有一些细节标明你的责任。


我很老实讲，我本身也是利用这些 Caveat 来保护公司的利益。如果你直接给钱走人，你可能面对法律诉讼及赔款。将这些Terms and Conditions 及 Employment Letter 交个新雇主过目，如果他们坚持开工日期，要求他们 Black and White 表示将会 Indeminify 你所面对的风险。

旧公司的hr 也告诉我如果我直接走人就是算absconding.我将会永远被他的公司黑名单。
TAX 的 EA statement 他们不会提供。
然后最坏打算就是等他的律师信。。

真的想学这儿招。。

First let me tell you my experience as many years ago I have been in same situation. I had two months notice period. I removed dependency on me in a month's time. Still one of the senior manager & HR guys were making it ego issue. I reasoned with them why they want to pay me for one month for just sitting idle. They didn't listen. I talked with my new employer. They were okay to extend the joining date but mentioned that I would be loosing a crucial training period.

Deeply frustrated, I talked to my brother who had a close friend in his company's HR. I sent me a scanned copy newspaper cutting of a court case wherein an employee was denied experience letter because of not serving full notice period. Employer was treating it as absconding case. However, the court verdict was in favour of employee and court said, no employment contract can be one sided. If the employee was willing to pay the money, employer had no right to force him to stay. Court also scolded employer for the same.

Next day, I took a print of that cutting and went to manager's cabin. I put that on his table and told him clearly that his understanding of employment contract is flawed. If he still don't understand, I will stop coming office from next day and will have a legal notice served for harassment and unethical employment practice. Next day, I got e-mail confirming acceptance of my resignation and confirmation of release date. I got experience letter and full & final settlement. They deducted some salary for remaining notice period. But that was okay with me as new employer was willing to pay for that.

Ongss

hongyin 发表于 6-4-2016 11:31 AM
旧公司的hr 也告诉我如果我直接走人就是算absconding.我将会永远被他的公司黑名单。
TAX 的 EA statement 他们不会提供。
然后最坏打算就是等他的律师信。。

真的想学这儿招。。

First let me tell you my experience as many years ago I have been in same situation. I had two months notice period. I removed dependency on me in a month's time. Still one of the senior manager & HR guys were making it ego issue. I reasoned with them why they want to pay me for one month for just sitting idle. They didn't listen. I talked with my new employer. They were okay to extend the joining date but mentioned that I would be loosing a crucial training period.Deeply frustrated, I talked to my brother who had a close friend in his company's HR. I sent me a scanned copy newspaper cutting of a court case wherein an employee was denied experience letter because of not serving full notice period. Employer was treating it as absconding case. However, the court verdict was in favour of employee and court said, no employment contract can be one sided. If the employee was willing to pay the money, employer had no right to force him to stay. Court also scolded employer for the same.Next day, I took a print of that cutting and went to manager's cabin. I put that on his table and told him clearly that his understanding of employment contract is flawed. If he still don't understand, I will stop coming office from next day and will have a legal notice served for harassment and unethical employment practice. Next day, I got e-mail confirming acceptance of my resignation and confirmation of release date. I got experience letter and full & final settlement. They deducted some salary for remaining notice period. But that was okay with me as new employer was willing to pay for that.

我的看法是这样：

1）永远进公司黑名单的话，你得注意将来换工作的时候，在填写Consent for Background Check表格时注明这次的问题，记得将现在一切Email来往打印或 Archive。很多跨国公司都会进行Pre-employment Background Check，职位越高，查得更清楚，如果你没及时提醒，一旦这旧公司标明你是Abscond，你的新职就泡汤了。一般上，Background Check是调查8年的employment history。
2）不给EA form，你可以向LHDN投诉，这是他们犯法了，LHDN规定，所有雇主必须在每年2月尾将EA form寄给员工（或前员工）。
3）谷歌来的信息不一定是对的。第一：印度的法庭和马来西亚的法庭不一样。第二：这是没有经过确认的信息。第三：每个人的Employment Letter都不一样，你的公司已经放进caveat，这代表他们曾经经历这些情形并可能遭受损失，因此是“有备而来”。
４）律师信这方面，我猜是会看情况，如果你直接走人，公司有损失，旧雇主才能起诉。如果没有损失，很难向你追求其他损失，不可能你赔了 buyout，还要起诉你讨buyout。如果起诉你是要讨其他损失，民事法庭会要求证明实际损失，一般上，如果公司有Credit Note 或 Payment赔顾客，那么，这段“However, please note that accepting any such early relieving request would be entirely at the discretion of the Company. ” 就会带来麻烦了。


我的建议还是：跟新雇主沟通。


我很坦白说，我曾经中过这种情况，后来亡羊补牢，在 Employment Letter 放了同样 Caveat。曾经有个员工要赔Buyout然后一周就走人，我的顾客不接受，在面对一大笔Penalty的风险，我告诉前员工，将我的Email传给新雇主，并要求新雇主Indemnify。这新雇主也是因为Project Delay急需人手，可是，在评估他顾客的情况和我会追究的款额，新雇主决定让前员工serve full notice。

卡螺丝

hongyin 发表于 5-4-2016 09:16 AM
旧公司都不给我知道赔多少钱。问和追了几遍了都不回复。
如果我硬着去新公司上班然后旧公司真的可以用法律上来告我毁约。然后可能赔钱的就可能是我自己赔了， 而不是新公司帮我赔。

我有问新公司， 他说我自己决定解决。他们不能等我两个月就是了。

虽然同意Ongss说的，坚持早退可能会招致旧公司诉讼，可是新公司也没有义务承担你的诉讼风险。你唯一能做的，就是向新公司求情，让他们等你serve完2个月notice。

hongyin

感恩大家的回复和帮忙。

终于有个完美的结局。
新人下个星期一上班了， 旧公司也可以提早让我走人。