依佛陀所教, 有一个灵魂在轮回吗?

清池

回复 297# 三法印

有心要成佛的菩萨道的人, 行大乘(开"大"船来"乘"载他人的人), 那能这样自私的???!!!!!

大船是以小船所作的相对论

但在大船里面也有细分的
有超级大船是什么人都载（一切众生都有佛性论），
也有普通大船是不载一些人的
如一阐提icchantika，
如二乘之人
如恶人
如阿闡底迦Acchantika 和阿顛底迦Atyantika  （指船队的人）
如住無種姓Agotrastha 和 補特伽羅Pudgala

三法印

回复 298# 素还真

peggy_str懂的比你深, 还需要来问你吗??? 这末想为人师吗???

三法印

哈哈，你以前的言论蛮好笑的，当时不太懂南传佛教的你还不是发与南传佛教自相矛盾的言论。不过慢慢的学了南传也就算了。现在还自以为是以为懂北传佛法哦。收皮啦。三印法，大家都知道你是没有修行，又要装很有修行。
素还真 发表于 14-11-2010 04:12 PM

从前的确不太懂南传佛教的, 不过慢慢的就有进步地... 这里懂北传佛法的人大有人在, 难道你是最懂的??  对呀, 大家都知道我是没有修行，所以根本不用装...

三法印

回复  素还真

胡說. 我根本上就否定了輪迴. 怎麼會去相信 "有輪迴沒有靈魂" ? 我提出的 "岡位論" 是指在 ...
hamitaichi 发表于 14-11-2010 12:28 PM  

哈密瓜，我之前都说了无灵魂，无轮回。

之前不是我铁板钉钉说涅盘是常，你自己还不是在那里『玩文字 ...
素还真 发表于 14-11-2010 11:45 AM  

hamitaichi和素还真----没有輪迴, 沒有靈魂

cks123

讨论有无灵魂之前, 须明白有沒有轮回之说!
个人的了解是:

如说有轮迴, 陷入常见!
如说沒有轮迴, 则陷入断见!
请参阅 :
【杂阿含经】第262经

世人颠倒依于二边。若有．若无。世人取诸境界。心便计着。
迦旃延。若不受．不取．不住．不计于我。此苦生时生．灭时灭。迦旃延。于此不疑．不惑．不由于他而能自知。是名正见。
如来所说。所以者何。

迦旃延。如实正观世间集者。则不生世间无见。
如实正观世间灭。则不生世间有见。

迦旃延。如来离于二边。说于中道。
所谓此有故彼有。此生故彼生。谓缘无明有行。乃至生．老．病．死．忧．悲．恼苦集
所谓此无故彼无。此灭故彼灭。谓无明灭则行灭。乃至生．老．病．死．忧．悲．恼苦灭

清池

回复 305# cks123

也可这样说
如说有灵魂, 陷入常见!
如说沒有灵魂, 则陷入断见!

所以说有轮回, 没灵魂

cks123

回复 306# 清池


    看来你还不明其义!
   努力吧!生死轮回的网友!

cks123

回复 305# cks123


    当我们如实正观十二因缘, 这个问题就不是一个问题.

清池

回复 307# cks123

   
    看来你还不明其义!
   努力吧!生死轮回的网友

是朋友有不明， 佛陀用多教义来讲解Samsara (轮回 )  。

Samsara就是Nirvana 的相对性, 没有Samsara就没有Nirvana



   Samsara 就是。。
  
轮回（Saṃsāra），較為世人所熟悉的是起源于沙門運動（他們反對婆羅門祭祀升天說），发展于佛教，但即使在歐洲亦有獨立的起源，即古希臘哲學和德魯伊教，而基督教把其發展成復活觀念。
輪迴起於梵書時代，成熟於《奧義書》，是流轉之意。奥义书认为，轮回包摄三道，即天道、祖道、兽道。輪迴是婆罗门教主要教义之一，婆罗门教认为四大种姓及贱民于轮回中生生世世永袭不变。
佛教再將三道扩展为六道四生，佛教认为，轮回是一个过程，人死去以后，「識」会离开人体，经过一些过程以后进入另一个刚刚出生的新生命体内，该新生命体可以是人类，也可以是动物、鬼、神。到達涅槃的境界就可擺脫轮回。
《法华经·方便品》：“以诸欲因缘，坠堕三恶道，轮迴六趣中，备受诸苦毒。”这一过程中，一個人當下所存在的狀態称为今生，前一个轮回的生命体成为前世，下一个称为来世或来生。
以佛教而论，众生从无始以来，即輾轉生死于三界五趣之中，或稱在六道中如车轮一样地旋转，即“六道輪迴”，至少要修成阿羅漢，乃至成佛，否则无有脱出之期，但不涉及靈魂之說。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E8%BC%AA%E8%BF%B4

cks123

回复 309# 清池


   

Samsara就是Nirvana 的相对性

别自己发明新说,
误人误己而已!

清池

回复 310# cks123

那你找给我们证明samsara  和  nirvana 不是相对的??


引用1。

Nirvana and Samsara
In Mahāyāna Buddhism, Nirvana and Samsara are said to be not-different when viewed from the ultimate nature of the Dharmakaya. An individual can attain Nirvana by following the Buddhist path. If they were ultimately different this would be impossible. Thus, the duality between Nirvana and Samsara is only accurate on the conventional level. Another way to arrive at this conclusion is through the analysis that all phenomena are empty of an essential identity, and therefore suffering is never inherent in any situation. Thus liberation from suffering and its causes is not a metaphysical shift of any kind. For better explication of this thinking see two-truths doctrine.
The Theravāda school makes the antithesis of Samsara and Nibbāna the starting point of the entire quest for deliverance. Even more, it treats this antithesis as determinative of the final goal, which is precisely the transcendence of Samsara and the attainment of liberation in Nibbāna. Where Theravada differs significantly from the Mahāyāna schools, which also start with the duality of Samsara and Nirvana, is in not regarding this polarity as a mere preparatory lesson tailored for those with blunt faculties, to be eventually superseded by some higher realization of non-duality[citation needed]. From the standpoint of the Pāli Suttas, even for the Buddha and the Arahants suffering and its cessation, Samsara and Nibbāna, remain distinct[citation needed].
Both schools agree that Shakyamuni Buddha was in saṃsāra while having attained Nirvāṇa, in so far as he was seen by all while simultaneously free from Samsara.


Paths to Nirvana in the Pali canon
In the Visuddhimagga, Ch. I, v. 6 (Buddhaghosa & Ñāṇamoli, 1999, pp. 6–7), Buddhaghosa identifies various options within the Pali canon for pursuing a path to Nirvana,[26] including:
by insight (vipassana) alone (see Dh. 277)[27]
by jhana and understanding (see Dh. 372)[28]
by deeds, vision and righteousness (see MN iii.262)[29]
by virtue, consciousness and understanding (7SN i.13)[30]
by virtue, understanding, concentration and effort (see SN i.53)[31]
by the four foundations of mindfulness (see Satipatthana Sutta, DN ii.290)[32]

清池

引用2。
The first was that neither samsara nor nirvana is a place. Samsara is a process of creating places, even whole worlds, (this is called becoming) and then wandering through them (this is called birth). Nirvana is the end of this process. You may be able to be in two places at once — or even develop a sense of self so infinite that you can occupy all places at once — but you can't feed a process and experience its end at the same time. You're either feeding samsara or you're not. If you feel the need to course freely through both samsara and nirvana, you're simply engaging in more samsara-ing and keeping yourself trapped.

A Verb for Nirvana
by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2005–2010

cks123

回复 311# 清池


   

Thus, the duality between Nirvana and Samsara is only accurate on the conventional level.

明白吗?

cks123

回复 312# 清池


   

Samsara is a process of creating places, even whole worlds, (this is called becoming) and then wandering through them (this is called birth). Nirvana is the end of this process.

怎么可能会有相对性呢?

cks123

回复 312# 清池


劝你 别常自圆其说!
   或断章取义!
什么大船或小船
全是新说 !
只为了合理化自己的思想!

清池

回复 313# cks123


conventional level  - 就是俗谛 （假谛）
absolute level - 就是真谛 （空谛）
ultimate level - 就是中谛

就是龙树菩萨的中观论的俗谛 （假谛）；实相是真俗不二， 偏一边就看不见中道实相了
大乘所说的诸法实相就是要能一心三观空、假、中”三谛

cks123

回复 316# 清池


    刚说不久,
   又来自圆其说!
   说穿了也只是祖师之说!

cks123

回复 316# 清池


    又来说大船故事!
   大船只在你那不见事实的思想里,
   如实观察吧!

清池

回复 314# cks123

[ Samsara is a process of creating places, even whole worlds, (this is called becoming) and then wandering through them (this is called birth). Nirvana is the end of this process.]

怎么可能会有相对性呢?

是你的英文问题，

[ 轮回是指（欲心所）成造法界境处(开始)，甚至全宇宙， 然后通过这无法控制的漫游在里面的过程(这是所为的生，而又无法控制的死，这生生死死)。 涅磐是这个无法控制过程的结束。]

因为无明而有生死（轮回）-所以有俗苦（在世间法）  
因为佛智而灭生死（涅磐）-所以有真乐（出世间法）

佛教修行智慧就是要得出世间法，而运用在世间法上。真俗不二

清池

回复 317# cks123

    刚说不久,
   又来自圆其说!
   说穿了也只是祖师之说!

如果世上只存有conventional level  （俗谛 ），
那佛陀也不用来教nirvana 涅磐(absolute level ,真谛) 之道了。